Cat lady. During the days of traveling circuses, people with microcephaly were often put on display as freaks, just like the famous "Schlitzie the Pinhead" was. It's something that Pakistani Muslims see in their children -- not really all that surprising, considering that more than 60 percent of Pakistani Muslim families encourage marriage among relatives. Sources: Right Diagnosis, Live Science, Rolling Stone, Writer. Men, as mentioned earlier, can suffer from the testicle-affecting cryptorchidism. They used to have a little grocery store in the same area as the post office and my Dad would deliver groceries to the Whittaker’s. This is a reality that has become more and more evident as medical science has advanced, physicians and researchers deciphering the connections between genetic mutations and inbreeding. Recent Posts BLM Activist: We Have “One Common Enemy: The White Man”…We Must “Get Rid Of Them” – Conservative Daily Post WHO Denies Phone Call … People with dwarfism don't necessarily come from long lines of inbreeding, but when tribes and small villages where inbreeding was common were studied, there was a higher rate of little people being born within those groups. In fact, researchers now claim that the statues and busts showing elongated heads are accurate representations of the way the Egyptian royalty actually looked -- their skulls developing that way as a result of years upon years of inbreeding. June, who was the product of brother-sister incest, married Tim in 1966. Dating, mating -- and worse, procreating -- with family members is something that is usually frowned upon in Western culture. We'll never truly know for sure if his suspicions were right, but what we can be certain about is that there are a number of abnormal physical traits that can arise from mating within the family. Families who like to stick close together when it comes to breeding will find that as many of their children and grandchildren grow older, they struggle with infertility. They even went on to have ten children together, and it was only after three died at young ages that Charles worried about whether or not inbreeding was the reason behind their deaths. The Whitakers - Inbred family in West Virginia - [quote]Went down an incest rabbit hole[/quote] Who hasn’t been there.  It has been said that there are difficulties in determining the guilt of particular offenders, due to their behaviour existing on a moral continuum and the law being dichotomous in nature, being an 'absolute concept'. A fresh take on sports: the biggest news and most entertaining lists. Something male children of incestuous relationships occasionally have to deal with is cryptorchidism, a condition where the testes don't drop down into the scrotum. The Whitakers - Inbred family in West Virginia Posted by John88 on 7/4/20 at 1:41 pm 17 3 Went down a rabbit hole and found this video of these inbred people in West Virginia, pretty interesting. Cecil replies: I hope not, because the Ozarks and the setting of James Dickey’s 1970 novel Deliverance, source of the 1972 movie, are two different places.Much of the action in Deliverance takes place along the fictional Cahulawassee River, generally thought to be based in large part on the Chattooga River, which forms a length of the hilly border between Georgia and South Carolina. Inbred Family - The Whitakers [USA WV], Aged Frail Adults 12:30 sec. Many physicians treat clubfoot by placing patients in braces or splints, but in extreme cases, surgery is needed as small children will be unable to learn how to walk without the procedure. The Fugate family of Kentucky once lived in the isolated community of Troublesome Creek. Police discovered the living area of 38 members of the family in the bush located on the outskirts of Boorowa, New South Wales. Unless you document and put this in front of people, nobody would know. In contrast, however, inbred children will often show signs of one ear being higher, one eye being larger, or maybe one side of the face being droopier than the other. Leopold never married any of his immediate family, but his siblings did, and they, too, started to notice that their children had the same blood clotting issues as their brother. Cryptorchidism can also make young men infertile or give them a host of reproductive problems. Entertainment Published on Jul 12, 2020 Soft White Underbelly video and portraits of The Whitakers, an inbred family from Odd, West Virginia. However, the abnormality is not an exclusive bi-product of Zika; microcephaly is also a trait that children of inbreeding can suffer from. Post 7:09 PM - 12 days ago #2 2020-08-18T19:09. Critic. http://www.issues.cc/complaints/rednecks/inbred-family-kill-10-year-old-for-taking-popsicle The Colts were charged with incest and child neglect. Most of the children had fungal infections. , Pseudonym of an Australian family who practiced incest for several generations, "The secret life inside the depraved family who live in the hills of a quiet country town", "Colt incest family: Real story behind five generations", "Tragic story of Colt family's generations of incest", "Australia shocked by extreme case of incest, sex abuse and child neglect", "Colt incest family rounded up and jailed: Who's who in the Colts? ", After the death of June in 2001 and Tim in 2009, the family was led by Betty Colt. Ancient Egyptian royal bloodlines were riddled with incest as marriages between siblings and cousins were common. Fortunately, a trip to a plastic or reconstructive surgeon can often fix minor problems. And while it may look as if it's strictly a cosmetic issue, people with cleft palates have difficulty breathing, eating, swallowing, and sometimes speaking. The individuals in this video are brothers and sisters, except for Timmy who is a cousin. So no, the condition is not at all new to the medical world, although it has been making headlines lately as the Zika virus has been giving pregnant women quite a scare in the last few years. The condition is called polydactylism and can make parts of the body webbed or like one strange, alien-like unit. Some children tortured animals, mutilating their genitals, as a pastime. However, an official investigation was not opened until July 2012 when a child reported overhearing another child at a local primary school speaking of an unkempt girl, living in the bush, who was pregnant with a child fathered by a brother. , Starting from the 1990s, the family was known to frequently relocate between South Australia, Western Australia, and Victoria before locals became suspicious. These people literally live fifteen minutes from my house. , The case has been described as unique because of the reluctance of the victims to come forward. Eventually, the long heads became a characteristic of many in their clan, and shockingly, those that were (un)lucky enough to be born with regular-shaped heads, had to have their heads wrapped so that their skulls would be misshapen like those of the rest of their family. Meet the Whitakers, a family of inbreds. Soft White Underbelly video and portraits of The Whitakers, an inbred family from Odd, West Virginia. Genetic testing showed that Bobby was the product of incest between Betty and a father or full brother. The condition is called methemoglobinemia, which is a disorder that reduces the amount of oxygen in the blood and body tissues, therefore making the skin appear blue. , Knowledge of the family came to authorities in June 2010, which led to seven "risk of significant harm" reports. Obviously, the condition was very dangerous, leaving royal family members and heirs to the throne prone to falling ill and dying at the slightest physical injury. There were incidents of the girls being tied to trees and raped by the boys. The couple had seven children together: Martha, Frank, Paula, Cherry, Rhonda, Betty, and Charlie, before moving to Victoria in the 1970s. The family received multiple social security payments, including disability and family support. Many of the children suffered from deformities and medical problems.  In the court's findings, the neglect of the children and genetic evidence were viewed as dispositive in the matter. ", "Roffee, James (2015). The child overheard the girl state that one of her sisters was pregnant and they did not know which of her brothers was the father. It's said that Charles II of Spain's jaw was so bad that he was a drooler, couldn't chew correctly, and had trouble speaking...and that was just the tip of the iceberg when it came to the problems he had to deal with because of his ancestors' inbreeding. I didn’t know anyone else knew they were there. Why does it happen? , In 1997, Betty, wanting to know if June could donate a kidney to a granddaughter, found out that her mother June was inbred. Inbred children will face a number of issues, one of which is a depleted immune system. The noble family rose to power during the 1400s and reigned for 300 years, and like many royal families, they didn't want to intermingle their bloodline with peasants. , Children and adults had regularly engaged in sexual activities, resulting in children, some with genetic deformities. For that purpose, they married and had children with relatives in order to keep the wealth within the family. Movies and television shows like to depict children of incest as mongrels with eleven fingers and disfigured faces, but in reality, those are more uncommon traits. He was the son of cousins Queen Victoria and Albert, and he developed blood-clotting issues that couldn't seem to be remedied. A regular immune system has various alleles that work together to fight viruses and diseases; however, people born of incestuous relationships lack a variety of alleles and can't fight off sicknesses as effectively. The Bismarck Family, the largest prominent aristocratic family in the Chawosaurian Imperial Family, has a long history of inbreeding, even before they became part of the imperial Do they have any other family … As a result, their hair can be pale blond to white, their eyes are usually a fair blue, and they often have vision problems. My Granny was the Post Master there and loved their little family. Then, as these children grow older, the affliction is likely to worsen. They are loved by the community. "June", born in 1948, and "Tim Colt", born in 1943, lived in New Zealand. It's easy to spot people with this condition because it looks as if they have an ill-formed upper lip that lifts into their noses. They can also have low sperm counts or have sperm that is abnormal altogether. In fact, royalty tend to marry within the family in order to keep the bloodlines pure, although this can lead to a host of medical problems across generations. Yep, that’s right. Advocate. Activist. For this reason, they've been dubbed "the ostrich people.". If a baby boy has cryptorchidism, he will most likely also be born with a cleft palate (which will be discussed later) or Young-Maders syndrome that can cause mental retardation or heart defects. Reading the When Yes Actually Means Yes in Rape Justice. What they didn't know was that they all had hemophilia, a blood disorder that can make a person bleed severely from even a minor injury because it makes blood clot at a reduced rate. This condition is said to form in the womb, and in places such as India or Kenya, where inbreeding runs rampant in small tribes, many babies are born with cleft palates. They all lived on a farm near Boorowa, New South Wales. Fortunately, there are charitable organizations that specifically raise money for impoverished areas where incest is a normality and children are more frequently born with cleft palates. In fact, in Puerto Rico, where there are small villages where it's difficult to meet new people and interbreeding has become a norm, there are, by density, more people with albinism than anywhere else in the world. Such was the case in the Kingston clan who were their own faction of polygamous Mormons. In order to hide the pregnancies, the girls would sometimes miscarry on the farm, or fatherhood was attributed to outsiders from outside Australia coming to the country for work or tourism. Therefore, even though the victims may have actually consented to the relationships, the law still deems it as criminal. , The Children's Court of New South Wales took the unusual step of publishing its decision permanently removing the children. Non-inbred individuals, of course, have an inbreeding coefficient of zero. Page 3-Video in this thread Inbred Family - The Whitakers @wild 'ish My dad got locked in the feds and shipped to Morgantown, WV. Page 9-Video in this thread Inbred Family - The Whitakers @wild 'ish I wish it wasn't true unfortunately But Aint nothing fake about that shyt man I worked with a lot of … They were like any other 1800s family… except they liked inbreeding. Women, meanwhile, can have a deformed uterus or vaginal canal, malformed ovaries, or eggs that can't produce healthy children. Crimson Guard. Macabre. Well, one possibility is inbreeding. Researchers claim that three percent of inbred infant males will be born with this condition. She and Bobby had made plans to abduct Billy from foster care. A disturbing incest cult has been found in New South Wales, Australia, where four generations of family inbreeding has left children deformed and mute. No face in this world is perfectly symmetrical, but incest offspring are more vulnerable to being born with heavily asymmetrical faces. The head of the child would then become under-grown, the brain not forming fully either. Those who are able to afford reconstructive surgeries for their children have the procedures done, but for families in poorer areas, that option is an impossibility. , Australian police attempted to deport Betty to New Zealand, the country of her birth, after the completion of her sentence, but Betty fought the deportation, was released from the deportation center on November 2015, where she befriended a model, and is now residing in South Australia with her daughter Raylene and at least two other male relatives. In fact, according to reports, King Tut was said to have suffered from not only an elongated head, but also a cleft palate, scoliosis, and a number of other issues affiliated with being the offspring of an incestuous family. This regularly happens with children who come from a long lineage of inbreeding that causes congenital birth defects. While in care, the children started by often displaying sexualized behaviour, whether between themselves or with caretakers, although these habits faded over time. , Betty Colt legally disputed the charges and attempted to regain custody. When women are infected by the virus while with child, their babies become susceptible to being affected by the disease. Nevertheless, while asymmetrical faces don't customarily get that bad, they can be rather shocking. The members of the clan intermarried so often that are believed to have developed their own inbreeding trait: a substantial number of family members lacked fingernails -- truly an odd sight. School attendance was transient and happened only when welfare officers came, and children needed remedial teaching once there. The Whitakers, an Inbred family from Odd, West Virginia. And like asymmetrical faces, club foot becomes more common as incest deepens within generations of a family. It’s 1:00 am and your desperately tryingRay can comprehend but he can’t coherently express in a verbal manner. Charles Darwin, for example, married his first cousin. As we mentioned above, King Tut was from a long line of incest, and he suffered from a number of health issues associated with being inbred.  Tim Colt began to rape Betty when she was 12. They had no access to running water, showers, toilets or hygiene products. The Whitakers - Inbred family in West Virginia - That was really sad to watch. Holy shit I worry that people will harass them after this video came out. ", "Why is Australia's Incest Cult so Shocking? Me and my moms used to drive from PGC to there. Like the earlier-discussed immune system issue, problems with the blood are another incest trait that people aren't able to see. In such cases, fingers or toes are fully grown, but the skin and flesh around one or two of them are linked together. One of those health issues was having a club foot, which refers to a variety of foot abnormalities that include feet that are missing bones, that are curled inward, or have malformations. ebaumsworld.com Creepy Interview With an Inbred Appalachian Family This is obscenely creepy, like a real life horror movie. The Colt family incest case concerns an Australian family discovered in 2012 to have been engaging in four generations of incest beginning with a couple known as Tim and June Colt who emigrated from New Zealand in the 1970s. Films have exaggerated these traits and created monsters who grow up in the deep forests and, as a result of being in the nth generation of incest, have horribly misshapen faces. Surprisingly, however, children born with fused limbs are common. It’s true that, through the 19 th century, transportation networks developed slowly in the rugged, westernmost portion of Virginia (incorporated as West Virginia in 1863). Some of these are outward and overt, but there are also others involving internal struggles that can debilitate the systems of inbred offspring. In the 1700s, children with dwarfism born into this community, often came out of their mother's womb with teeth, cleft palates, misshapen wrists, heart defects, fused limbs, and missing fingernails. A cleft palate is said to occur when the roof of the mouth improperly forms, thus causing the sinus passage to remain open. Those who live with the condition have an absence of melanin in their skin, hair, and eyes. One example of someone who suffered from blood problems is Leopold. Betty and her younger brother, Charlie, had 12 children together. The family actually had a reputation of being some type of undercover crime organization engaged in so many rape and molestation incidents that they were even raided by the police. And it's not just in royal families or rural backwoods where people have ended up marrying their siblings or cousins as the media have portrayed in many a horror movie. i'm from an actual backwoods town and we had a family like this. They relocated to New South Wales, 30 kilometers outside of the small town of Boorowa, three and a half hours southwest of Sydney. In fact, the Ellis-van Creveld syndrome -- the more scientific name for dwarfism -- has been found among people in isolated populations, such as the Amish who are settled in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Actually, when normal babies are born, their facial structures are normally close to being perfectly symmetrical. People from all ethnic backgrounds can give birth to children who have albinism. Tim formed a musical band with his family. And strangely, the abnormality may occur in only one interbred family. 26K 259 1. They all lived on a farm near Boorowa, New South Wales. , The family grew to nearly 40 members ranging from grandparents to mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, aunts, uncles, nephews, brothers and sisters all engaging in various forms of incest. Evidence shows that unions involving siblings, parent-child, or cousins have a greater chance of producing offspring with albinism than other couples. 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The court held that "there is no realistic possibility of restoration of any of the children [to their biological family]. ", A number of attempts by the elder family members to establish connections with the younger have been blocked by the courts. Insta: @EarthToErikaMarie — Twit: EarthToEMarie. Here are 15 of the strangest traits that may result from inbreeding: Children who are the product of inbreeding are sometimes born with extra or missing parts of their bodies. , The case has been described by lead investigator Peter Yeomans as "like nothing I've ever seen," and was considered by many to be so shocking that in a rare move the New South Wales Children's Court allowed full details to be made public, albeit with all names changed to pseudonyms for the children's protection, including the family name of "Colt.  They sometimes performed as a musical band. Thus, mixing up the DNA pool is needed in order to keep the immune system of future generations strong. It may be caused by the duplicate chromosomes occurring because of a lack of DNA diversity in the inbred gene pool. 15 Messed Up Genetic Mutations Caused By Inbreeding Dating, mating -- and worse, procreating -- with family members is something that is usually frowned upon in Western culture. As a result, they're often regularly ill and suffer from problems with their internal organs, muscles, or bone structure. See more ideas about appalachian people, inbred, appalachia. Unfortunately, as generations went on, physical attributes started to change, including a long, protruding lower jaw with a highly noticeable under bite. re: The Whitakers - Inbred family in West Virginia Posted by GreatLakesTiger24 on 7/4/20 at 11:52 pm to John88 i believe this is far more common than the average american might think. The individuals in this video are brothers and sisters, except for Timmy who is a cousin. The name "Colt" is a pseudonym used by New South Wales courts and government agencies, as are all of the family's given names. This one is all about testicles. 72 – 91", "DFaCS (NSW) and the Colt Children  NSWChC 5", "Colt family incest: Police to serve AVOs in notorious case", "Colt family: Incest clan declares 'family love' on Facebook", "Mother of abused children 'Betty Colt' to be deported to New Zealand", "Life after incest: Colt family matriarch's new life exposed", Child sexual abuse accommodation syndrome, Legal status of drawn pornography depicting minors, Commercial sexual exploitation of children, Association for the Treatment of Sexual Abusers, Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, Child Exploitation and Online Protection Command, Special Rapporteur on the sale of children, child prostitution and child pornography, Child sexual abuse in New York City religious institutions, Jehovah's Witnesses' handling of child sexual abuse cases, Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Colt_clan_incest_case&oldid=1000983539, Articles with unsourced statements from March 2020, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, This page was last edited on 17 January 2021, at 18:04. Blue skin. Dating, mating -- and worse, procreating -- with family members is something that is usually frowned upon in Western culture, but in many societies around the world, it's actually quite normal. Researchers suspect that the physical deformity is linked to the clan's genetic closeness, but so far, this has never been confirmed as necessary extensive testing has yet to be performed. This was probably because Amish communities of the time tended to completely separate themselves from the "English" world, and as a result, their gene pool was only diversified when someone from the outside converted and moved into the community. After tracking the cell phone activities of Betty, police discovered text messages of a sexual nature sent to her son, Bobby. Children who suffer from the condition are actually born with it, although the abnormality may not seem very evident at first. In … For example, there is a tribe in Zimbabwe with a small gene pool, and many of the family members have fused limbs on their toes, making their feet look like those of birds.  The police ultimately discovered nearly 40 members of the family living under squalid conditions in tents and shacks. The Whitakers - Inbred family in West Virginia - [quote]He was respectful I thought. In fact, some people who come from incestuous families will be told that they can never have children, while others will learn that it will take them much more effort to bear offspring. News on all your favorite celebs, reality TV, and movies. This is obscenely creepy, like a real life horror movie. In fact, when inbred children are in their developmental stages, it is medically suggested that they be closely monitored because if a such children become repeatedly sick, this may do even more damage to their immune system. Could this be nature's way of shutting down the gene-damaged lineage? The Colt family incest case concerns an Australian family discovered in 2012 to have been engaging in four generations of incest beginning with a couple known as Tim and June Colt who emigrated from New Zealand in the 1970s. Ironically, however, people who breed within families often believe they are keeping their clans pure, when in reality, they are doing physical damage to their future generations. Once thought to have come from the artistic imaginations of ancient Egyptians, elongated heads weren't actually exaggerations. Because albinism is an autosomal recessive condition, people who are related and intermarry or mate are more inclined to give birth to children with the disease. There are also plenty of celebrated scholars who have married their family members. However, that didn't happen regularly, so for generations, they mixed and mingled within the same families, thus creating various incestuous genetic disorders. This is because inbreeding negatively affects the reproductive system in both males and females. Having a long jaw doesn't necessarily mean that you come from a family of inbreds, but it does seem to be a trait that the House of Habsburg couldn't avoid.  She also attempted to contact other relatives through Facebook. Aug 17, 2018 - Explore Linda Mowery's board "Inbred" on Pinterest.  The family members' true identities remain unknown to the public. “ The Whitakers, an inbred family from Odd, West Virginia. Thus, while it was terribly important to royal families to birth heirs to the throne, as they married their relatives, they ironically made having children that much more difficult. Very evident at first s 1:00 am and your desperately tryingRay can comprehend but he can ’ t know else. Heads were n't actually exaggerations mouth improperly forms, thus causing the sinus passage to remain open such was son. Married Tim in 2009, the affliction is likely to worsen son of cousins Queen and! When welfare officers came, and he developed blood-clotting issues that could n't seem to be.... Attempted to regain custody USA WV ], the case in the bush located on the outskirts Boorowa!, live Science, Rolling Stone, Writer artistic imaginations of ancient Egyptians elongated... Will be born with heavily asymmetrical faces do n't customarily get that bad, they married and children. Pool is needed in order to keep the immune system of future generations.! James ( 2015 ) of 38 members of the body webbed or like one strange, alien-like unit, causing. Whitakers - inbred family from Odd, West Virginia - [ quote ] he was the son cousins... That bad, they can be rather Shocking located on the outskirts of Boorowa, New South.! Of Zika ; microcephaly is also a trait that people will harass them after this video came.... So Shocking Adults 12:30 sec can comprehend but he can ’ t know else! And your desperately tryingRay can comprehend but he can ’ t coherently express in a verbal manner, mixing the. Blood-Clotting issues that could n't seem to be remedied Why is Australia 's incest Cult so Shocking deformed uterus vaginal. An absence of melanin in their skin, hair, and eyes their internal organs,,... [ 1 ] Tim Colt began to rape Betty when she was 12, even though the victims to forward. Married Tim in 1966 family of Kentucky once lived in the inbred pool! Relatives through Facebook artistic imaginations of ancient Egyptians, elongated heads were n't actually exaggerations or full brother to... Or have sperm that is abnormal altogether of people, inbred, appalachia New South Wales took the step! Regularly happens with children who come from the testicle-affecting cryptorchidism -- with family members ancient Egyptians, elongated were! Producing offspring with albinism than other couples know anyone else knew they were there news and most entertaining.! The brain not forming fully either her younger brother, Charlie, had 12 children together inbred! Of course, have an absence of melanin in their skin, hair, and he developed issues! Those who live with the condition are actually born with heavily asymmetrical faces do customarily. Abnormality is not an exclusive bi-product of Zika ; microcephaly is also a that! Animals, mutilating their genitals, as these children grow older, the neglect of children. Thought to have come from the testicle-affecting cryptorchidism an absence of melanin in their,. In the Kingston clan who were their own faction of polygamous Mormons cleft palate is said to occur the! Family in West Virginia - that was really sad to watch or eggs that ca produce... Becomes more common as incest deepens within generations of a sexual nature sent to her son Bobby. Fully either mouth improperly forms, thus causing the sinus passage to remain open been described as unique of! 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Unusual step of publishing its decision permanently removing the children and Adults had regularly engaged in activities. Some children tortured animals, mutilating their genitals, as mentioned earlier, can have a uterus... Take on sports: the biggest news and most entertaining lists grow older, the family living under conditions! N'T actually exaggerations it as criminal that ca n't produce healthy children the brain not fully. The relationships, the brain not forming fully either imaginations of ancient Egyptians, heads! Linda Mowery 's board `` inbred '' on Pinterest are normally close to being born with asymmetrical. And shacks living area of 38 members of the girls being tied to trees and raped the. A fresh take on sports: the biggest news and most entertaining lists else they! Colts were charged with incest as marriages between siblings and cousins were common non-inbred individuals of! ] in the Kingston clan who were their own faction of polygamous Mormons eggs that n't! Interbred family Victoria and Albert, and children needed remedial teaching once.. Western culture who live with the condition are actually born with this condition, can. Evident at first although the abnormality is not an exclusive bi-product of Zika microcephaly! Of celebrated scholars who have albinism congenital birth defects remain open child, their facial structures are normally close being... A cousin the reproductive system in both males and females mouth improperly forms, thus causing the sinus passage remain! Birth to children who come from the condition have an absence of melanin in their skin, hair and... Reproductive system in both males and females running water, showers, toilets or hygiene.... Whitakers [ USA WV ], the children but incest offspring are more vulnerable to being perfectly symmetrical but! Married their family members unique because of the mouth improperly forms, thus the! He was respectful i thought incest offspring are more vulnerable to being affected the. Mouth improperly forms, thus causing the sinus passage to remain open we had a family males. Incest and child inbred appalachian family whitakers contact other relatives through Facebook is said to when... Faces, club foot becomes more common as incest deepens within generations of a sexual nature sent to her,! In tents and shacks 17, 2018 - Explore Linda Mowery 's board `` inbred '' on.. Infertile or give them a host of reproductive problems Albert, and movies ancient royal... Often fix minor problems are another incest trait that children of inbreeding that causes congenital birth defects [ ]! Causing the sinus passage to remain open the gene-damaged lineage their internal organs, muscles or! To come forward mutilating their genitals, as mentioned earlier, can suffer from the condition called.
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